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avmurray
http://www.fanartreview.com/avmurray
Location: Oslo -Norway
Gender: Female
Born: 30th of august
Interests: Family, travelling, gardening and art
Member: Premier Artist
Joined: September 2010
INFORMATION
Avmurray (Annie) was born in Oslo, Norway, where she still lives with her husband. She has always been preoccupied with creative activities. Oil painting has been a favorite for many years. It was actually through working with that, photography came into the picture. In lack of inspiration she started to take photos first, and then paint. In Norway it is not very easy to paint on location, due to weather conditions.
It probably explains her fascination for Greece. A country visited 3 weeks every year. Annie is still working as a senior advicer in a big company, but when it is time for retirement (not too long) more time will be spent in warmer countries.
She is a proud grandmother, and the camera has been used a lot to picture the first years of a human being. Still, it is just the last year that photographing has been one of the greatest interests.
FAVORITE QUOTE
We all live under the same sky, but we don't all have the same horizon. ...
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avmurray: Each morning when I awake, I experience again a supreme pleasure: that of being ME. - Annie Vera Murray
June 16 at 1:08PM
    Sinbackkk: Beautiful words from a beautiful lady!!!
    June 16 at 1:12PM
    Echo7: Each morning when I awake, I glance across into Annies eyes.

    Shit...sorry..that was a dream. My reality is a bit fkd.
    June 16 at 1:44PM
    avmurray: You two have put a big smile on to my face. I just love you.
    June 16 at 1:47PM
    Sange: Each morning I awake to "Good Morning Sunshine!" From you mia Cara and My Bear... The price of Far was worth "meeting" you and My Mary!
    You Cara are A lady! There is a lady in the house.... ALL RISE!
    TIAMO mia Cara...per sempre!
    June 16 at 2:16PM
    avmurray: You are a true friend Sunshine
    June 16 at 3:20PM
    Badger: Each morning when I awake, I experience again a supreme displeasure: that of seeing another of her quotes. ~ Badger.

    June 16 at 8:23PM
    Doris1022: Can I ask why you have such a problem with a few quotes of different famous people and such.
    I just don't understand why there is such a hard time over this. it seems a bit extreme.
    I enjoy poetry and art, the quotes some times make me stop and think...what?? oh yeah.
    June 16 at 9:28PM
    Keri Harrish: Doris, there has been more than a 'few' quotes. A few would be like once a week or something, instead it's - well I can't count them all because I've been muted by the quoter.
    June 16 at 11:50PM
    Doris1022: I still don't see the big issue. with the quotes.
    I enjoy most everyone's art or photos that come up in the que and just want to feel I don't have to be worried who I am talking to because they are likely to ridicule me if I make this statement of no real significance. just for really something to say. does that make sense?
    June 17 at 12:08AM
    Doris1022: Let me try a different approach.
    you guys live all over the place. we aren't going to be having dinner together, right. we know that.
    But it would be nice to be able to appreciate art together and respectfully disagree with out alot of conflict. do you see what I mean?
    June 17 at 12:11AM
    avmurray: Doris, don't you think it is a big issue that so many of us are muted because of this ? I don't mind quotes at all, but when about 5 or more are given out every single day, they loose their strength. I answered one of these quotes with another one, and that was all it took to be muted. I have soon been a member on this site for 3 years, and have never muted a single person. And I can assure you that I have been through more crap than just a remark to a quote.
    June 17 at 9:17AM
    Sange: Ditto on EVERYTHING Annie said and Keri!
    I have had ENOUGH bullying, sneaky emails, comments made and deleted so the serpent looks like snow white.. it is ENOUGH. And it would be refreshing to just use your own words. I loathe sneaky people who make comments all OVER my profile page at 3am, then mute me so I cannot approach them. Grow up!
    June 17 at 11:01AM
    Doris1022: flight of raven if you are talking to me. then please try a little harder to understand. That seems a bit stubborn.

    When I first started here people jumped on me real quick for profile comments I made about personal stuff. That is not necessary. This is a public site we have paid our dues. and we can post anything as long as it is not a violation. It made me feel unwelcome. but I am not going anywhere. I love art more than the aggravation. it seems that maybe you are assuming some ill intents that weren't really meant that way? can we let bygones be by gones?





    June 17 at 2:33PM
avmurray: If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change your attitude. - Maya Angelou. As you can see, this is the quotation presented by kimartist a bit further down the page. I am unable to comment on it, since she has muted me. Good grief. I only replied to one of her other ones, and that was obviously enough for muting me. This should simply not be permitted, and what is even worse, is that all this is caused by a person calling herself a Christian. I think someone need to change their attitude.

June 15 at 4:38PM
    Sinbackkk: I think I'll stay out of this one...
    June 15 at 5:07PM
    Sinbackkk: Much easier to quote anothers principles then to live up to them!
    June 15 at 5:16PM
    Sange: One who uses the Word of God to beat down and spew nothing but hate, is no follower of Christ's teachings. The Sweet Quotateer left messages in every profile thought on my page at 3:am Friday morning. I as a Christian woman , deleted them and CHOSE not to report her. She did have the commmom sense to at least Quote Echo7/Don.
    I am also muted. But I am not offended at all. I am sick of the monopoly of the profile thoughts. There is an ignore button here on FAR that I use. I am BORED now.
    June 15 at 7:32PM
    Sange: droid spelled its version of common
    spell check please! lol
    June 15 at 7:39PM
    Cephus: I am not muted. Guess she used up her limit of mutes.
    June 15 at 8:18PM
    Cephus: Oops! I screwed up, yes I am muted and everyone on the site also appears to be muted as she stasrted to not allow any reviews.

    June 15 at 8:22PM
    Badger: Great stuff!
    June 15 at 8:33PM
    Sange: That act alone SPEAKS volumes!
    Why be on a site just to quote endlessly every hour?
    June 15 at 8:34PM
avmurray: I am going on holiday tomorrow to a Greek island called Chios, and will be away for two weeks. This of course means I will not be seen very much, but I will bring my PC and peep in now and again. I am sorry it won't be very much reviewing done though.

:)Annie
June 7 at 5:48PM
    donkeyoatey: Have a great time, and a safe trip!
    June 7 at 8:38PM
    eileen0204: have a wonderful trip Annie... and I know you'll bring back lots of good stuff!
    June 7 at 10:12PM
    Sorin Fota: Enjoy! Eager to see the 'production'!
    June 8 at 1:32AM
    Sange: I know I will be with you through cyber space..so I go with you! Yippeee! bring me back a rock! I collect them from all around the world!
    June 15 at 4:06PM
avmurray: It came as a great and pleasant surprise that I won The Mixed Media Photograph of the month. Thank you to everybody for the congratulations, and also to all of you who have reviewed it and voted for it.
May 25 at 9:55AM
    Tony B: Oh please, really? You got the best work out there, Krist, it was no wonder to me, congrats, kick some ass.
    May 25 at 3:45PM
    Echo7: Ive said this on a couple of occassions before..but i'll happily say it again..

    Annie, we both joined this site in september 2010. I remember you & your work from day 1.

    Your exactly what this site is capable of producing. Your the best advertisment we have here.

    Ive watched you go from strength to strength. From your original flower, travel etc shots...to your excellent mixed media, beautiful works of art...using a multitude of filters & effects.

    Your learning of photoshop & its plugins.....your understanding of light.

    I'm constantly stunned at your work , im proud of what you have achieved.

    Not only are you very good at what you do,also people most certainly respect the time you have spent here guiding, helping & most of all inspiring others.

    That makes you quite special. Fanartreview needs you...soo much.

    Massive congratulations to you my friend. You deserve everything thing you achieve. Well done =D

    To anyone who doesnt know Annie(Avmurray) ...spend your time both looking at Annies work & read the reviews she writes.

    Your ROCK Annie =D xx

    May 25 at 6:47PM
    Sange: Ditto on everything Don has said.
    I am one of the lucky ones who knows Annie Far.. far away from here. She has made me into the photographer I am today by her reviews. Her use of natural light is FLAWLESS. Her in depth reviews are PRICELESS! If you want to see Clarity and know what A six and higher looks like..poke around her portfolio.
    I plan on getting it as good as that someday .. Congrats Cara... Tiamo.. per sempre...;)
    May 25 at 11:51PM
    avmurray: I am deeply touched, and also flattered. How sweet of all of you to give me so much credit for my work. If you only knew how much I appreciate your kind words.
    May 26 at 10:35AM
    yourbren: Annie, my computer has been down off and on for more then 2 weeks but finally is up again, so I have the privilege of congratulating you on winning Mixed Media Photograph of the month. Your work is always different, imaginative and done with great skill. Congratulations. P.S. I agree with Don's lovely and extensive tribute to you. You are most deserving. Bren
    May 28 at 10:30PM
avmurray: I have been on and off the Internet for the last 3 weeks, and last week I only managed to connect for a couple of hours. The biggest company in Norway has still not managed to solve the problem, and yesterday I had had enough. I have now installed Internet from another company. I do have a lot to catch up with, and I will probaby be unable to review everybody sitting on my list. Will however do my best.
May 25 at 8:34AM
FanArtReview wrote to avmurray: Congratulations! Shining like Silver is the new Mixed Media Photograph of the Month!
May 22 at 12:10AM
    Sange: CONGRATS Cara! Love that creative piece! Well Done!
    May 22 at 12:54AM
    donkeyoatey: congratulations! truly lovely!
    May 22 at 8:24AM
    JB Stevenson: Congratulations, Annie. Well deserved.

    JB
    May 22 at 10:40AM
    ozzyart: Wow Annie, It's a wonderful image and I'm so pleased for you! CONGRATULATIONS!
    May 22 at 10:40AM
    Michael Whitson: Outstanding job! Just beautiful work and thank you.
    May 22 at 10:51AM
    Doris1022: congrats to you!!
    May 22 at 1:09PM
    Rickyrick: Well done, lovely image :-)
    May 22 at 1:19PM
    Sinbackkk: Beautiful! Like you...
    May 22 at 3:55PM
    helvi2: Absolutey beautiful My Friend!
    Congratulations! :o)
    May 22 at 4:29PM
    Mara del Mar: Congratulations, very well deserved!
    May 23 at 2:06PM
avmurray: Sorry I am not more active, but my Internet connection is down again. Hasn't really worked properly for a couple of weeks. I don't think I will be back until next week. Just visiting some friends and took the opportunity to write this message.
May 17 at 9:50AM
FanArtReview wrote to avmurray: Congratulations on winning the Reviewing Competition.
April 22 at 3:10PM
    Sange: YIPPEEE!Class act! Love you cara and your HONEST In DEPTH REVIEWS!
    Congrats!
    April 21 at 8:36PM
    ozzyart: CONGRATULATIONS Annie!!! VERY well done!
    April 21 at 8:42PM
    Skyangel02: I think Tom ought to put you on the permanent pay roll and pay you $100 monthly for writing reviews and be done with it. ;-)

    April 21 at 8:55PM
    lynnkah: congrats on your win , well deserved
    April 21 at 11:37PM
    pattigirl: Such a well deserved recognition! Always such extraordinary reviews in my experience! Congratulations!
    April 22 at 2:29AM
    Tellust: Many congrats on your win,well deserved
    April 22 at 2:43AM
    Katz: Sincere congratulations Annie, you encourage and inspire others always!
    April 22 at 3:52AM
avmurray: Thank yo so much to everybody who voted for my "Rose Wine", "After Eight" and "Because...." Also to all of you who voted for "In the name of God" and "Like a Candle in the Wind".
February 19 at 3:23PM
    Skyangel02: You're just a born winner Annie.
    February 19 at 4:55PM
    helvi2: I told you "Because" would win Annie! Congratulations!:o)
    February 19 at 5:58PM
    Sange: HA! You are MOST welcome Cara!
    Congrats! Feel free to promote my work anytime! LOL ;)
    February 19 at 7:54PM
    lilacCollas: congratulations on your win
    :)
    February 20 at 2:21AM
    roomwithaview: Hello AV, Just to wish you well deserved congratulations on your still life win this week, your work is gorgeous, and gives me inspiration to get better! Have a wonderful weekend, and again, Gratulerler! :)-diane
    March 16 at 3:17PM
    sonshine: Congrads on the win, Annie! I am like Diane above me..you give me inspiration also..Great job!!
    March 23 at 12:19AM
    dshedra: Congratulations on your win for the Flowing Water category...It was a wonderful shot, and I know a lot of work and steps went into it and it shows. Good for you!
    April 20 at 10:35AM
avmurray: If a lot of members express their thoughts in this forum at the same time, we will not be able to see them. I don't like this new trend of making this page so short that we are hardly able to comment on anything, or even read what is posted. Why Tom ?
January 8 at 11:52AM
    Cephus: Fully agree. This area is now almost useless.
    January 8 at 12:42PM
    MGTF Blue: I suspect it is due to a few discussions recently that got a bit 'heated' and so if they drop off the page then people can't easily carry on the arguement.
    It is pretty poor now though isn't it.
    January 8 at 2:51PM
    Anonymous One: As well as crying to Tom that they felt picked on.....
    January 8 at 7:30PM
    Skyangel02: We can always see profile thoughts on people profiles regardless of whether they stay on the forum page or not. It is just a matter of going to individual profiles.
    January 8 at 8:05PM
    avmurray: It is impossible to go into all member's profiles. Well, not impossible, but it would take some time.
    January 8 at 8:18PM
    Skyangel02: If I have anything to say which I want others to read I usually post it in the general forum not on the profile thoughts. It stays there a lot longer and people get more time to think about it and reply. I suggest if you have something to say which you want more members to comment on, you also put it in the general forum instead of just on profile thoughts. Leave the profile thoughts for Tom to use for awarding monthly contest winners and for us to congratulate them.
    January 9 at 12:22AM
    Flight_of_Raven: I used to use this page strictly to see what little insights Deb had for us... :( Sorry to be a downer!
    January 9 at 12:59AM
    Sinbackkk: No downer! Good memories lots of laughs!
    January 9 at 11:17AM
    Cephus: Hey, this thread is now more than a day old. Back to old times?
    January 9 at 10:21PM
    1939noel: I don't think Tom listens.
    February 7 at 6:19AM
FanArtReview wrote to avmurray: Congratulations! The Mixed Media Photographer of the Year.
January 1 at 12:10AM
    ckbesq: A big congratulations on being #1~
    January 1 at 12:48AM
    Michael Collier: Congratulations Annie, well deserved recognition, nice to see you recognized not just for your fantastic reviews, but also for your skills as an artist. Looking forward to more from you in the new year.
    January 1 at 8:52PM
    Skyangel02: Congratulations Annie. Your work is of a high standard and excellent quality. You definitely deserve this award. Well done. You have always set a great example. I look forward to seeing your new work this year.
    January 2 at 4:29PM
    pfemd: Congratulations Annie, you are an amazing photographer and really deserve to win first place since you are #1 IMO. Kudos to you. Paula
    January 20 at 10:45PM
FanArtReview wrote to avmurray: Congratulations on winning the Reviewing Competition.
December 16 at 3:10PM
    Sange: Ha! Mia Cara is on a roll! Finally getting the props she deserves! She works so hard at reviewing.Her words are always kind and helpful. ANNIE.. you have changed the way I shoot.. you have taught me.. helped me.. you are one Classy Creative Lady. You treat all with respect. I am blessed to have you in my life... a life that goes FAR beyond this website. You are a Dear friend I cherish. CONGRATULATIONS ON A WELL DESERVED WIN! BRAVO! ;)
    December 16 at 4:21PM
    Echo7: Boom. This needs no words. You know you deserve this. Somethings in life happen the way they should.
    December 16 at 5:05PM
    Skyangel02: Congratulations again Annie. I think Tom should just pay you real money for reviewing weekly and be done with it. You work hard enough at it to deserve to be paid for it like a full time job.
    December 16 at 5:51PM
    helvi2: COngratulations Annie! You so deserve wonderful rewards like this! :o)
    December 16 at 6:27PM
    donkeyoatey: Congratulations, a truly deserved award!
    December 16 at 6:54PM
    Life is but a dream.: Congratulations Annie. I always look for your kind and honest reviews. I agree with Skyangel's comments as well.
    December 16 at 10:40PM
    filly421: Congratulations Annie. Such consistently top quality reviews deserve much recognition and reward. You are a valuable assest to the site.
    December 17 at 12:46AM
    filly421: I mean asset, not assest!
    December 17 at 12:46AM
    ducilla: This is another "feather" in your wonderful head dress!.. Well deserved in my opinion..dennis
    December 17 at 12:02PM
    ducilla: This is another "feather" in your wonderful head dress!.. Well deserved in my opinion..dennis
    December 17 at 12:02PM
    avmurray: Thanks everybody for your kind words and your support.
    December 17 at 1:40PM
    Tony B: I am not sure if there is anyone better, well deserved!
    December 17 at 5:51PM
    marieann green: Always look forward to your honest and comprehensive review. Congratulations
    December 17 at 7:47PM
    sonshine: Congratulations Annie!
    December 31 at 2:22PM
avmurray: An Angel has promoted my photo of the cone to the top 12 list. Thank you so very much. I am speechless. It is some great people on this site.
December 13 at 7:47PM
    donkeyoatey: What a wonderfulthing to do..and the right season for angels too!
    December 13 at 9:43PM
    Sange: Ha! An angel huh? Well you tell that angel they have SUPERBULOUS taste and that anyone who treats my Cara like a queen is OK in my book! YOU Cara are one Classy Lady! Yeah You! ;)
    December 13 at 11:32PM
    chickadee: I do believe in angels, what a wonderful and well deserved gift for you Annie!
    December 14 at 7:52PM
    Sange: I BELIEVE in angels too...mine have names.... Annie and Chickadee! Yipppeeeee!
    December 16 at 8:14AM
FanArtReview wrote to avmurray: Congratulations! The December winner of the Recognized Artist reward.
December 11 at 1:11PM
    avmurray: This was so unexpected, and came as total surprise. I am truly honored to receive such a recognition. Thank you to the committee who found me worthy of this, and thank you to all my friends here on FAR for the support and help I have received from you during my more than 2 years of membership.
    December 11 at 10:20AM
    aclaport: Congrats on the well deserved recognition! =)
    December 11 at 10:43AM
    Sange: Congrats Cara! Well deserved! You are one wickedly Creative Special CLASSY lady full of imagination and MAGIC! I have enormous amount of RESPECT for always being a VOICE OF REASON on this site. You are unique... lovely and oh so TALENTED!
    CONGRATULATIONS MIA CARA! BRAVO!
    TIAMO... PER SEMPRE! OOOXXXX
    December 11 at 11:19AM
    filly421: Congratulations Annie for the well deserved recognition!
    December 11 at 12:37PM
    Stacey Nagy: Congrats! Well deserved!!
    December 11 at 12:55PM
    cleo85: Congratulation! The honor is so well deserved. We all have learned a lot from you!
    December 11 at 3:01PM
    helvi2: You are one of the people here who SOooooo deserved this award! Congatulations BIG TIME! :o) Helvi
    December 11 at 4:11PM
    Echo7: Annie, we both started here in September 2010. I've watched you go from strength to strength....and further. Your reviews are always extremly well descriptive & honest. You help whenever your asked. Your an inspiration to every single member here at FAR. Theres nobody on this site better deserving of this accolade than yourself. I truly mean that. Please dont think im taking anything away from anyone by saying that. But i'm very happy you have got this award.

    So well done & thankyou for everything.
    December 11 at 4:18PM
    phil1950: Congrats well done
    December 11 at 4:32PM
    Cassandra01: Congrats Annie! So please you got this honor...your work speaks for itself though!
    December 11 at 5:14PM
    MoonWillow: A HUGE CONGRATULATIONS, ANNIE! I'm so happy for you. Well deserved, my friend. And I Echo Echo's comment. :)))shawn
    December 11 at 5:51PM
    ducilla: !!!
    December 11 at 6:02PM
    Life is but a dream.: Your presence on this site makes it worthwhile to be here. You share readily, speak honestly and are respected totally. Congratulations.
    December 11 at 7:14PM
    Skyangel02: Congratulations Annie. The award is well earned.
    December 11 at 8:49PM
    Lucien van Oosten: Annie, Congratulations well deserved.
    Cheers!!!
    Lucien
    December 12 at 7:13AM
    pfemd: Annie, I think you are role model for me and everyone else on the site. The combination of your strong artistry, your professionalism, your generosity in teaching others, your intelligence, everything. You really deserve this award. Paula
    December 12 at 11:50PM
    Lakelady: Congratulations!
    December 13 at 1:39AM
    SteveANH: A deserving winner, congratulations!
    December 13 at 7:13PM
    EvaB: Bravo!
    December 13 at 7:32PM
    chickadee: Wow where have I been when they presented you with this award and so well deserved Annie! You have been an highlight on this site and hard not to miss the extraordinary talent you have to make something great look amazing! Congratulations!!
    December 14 at 7:51PM
avmurray: In my opinion constructive criticism is the process of offering valid and well reasoned opinions about the work of others, usually involving both positive and negative comments, in a friendly manner rather than an oppositional one.

Because of the overuse of negative, nagging criticism, some people become defensive even when receiving constructive criticism given in a spirit of good will. Constructive criticism is more likely to be accepted if the criticism is focused on the recipient's work. That is, personality issues must be avoided as much as is possible.

In an online forum lacking face-to-face contact, constructive criticism can be easily misinterpreted, but effective interpersonal communication skills can be helpful to assess the recipient's frame of mind. During initial exchanges or when encountering defensive individuals, effective criticism calls for softer language and inclusion of positive comments.

Some members obviously see bluntness as honest and efficient while viewing softer approaches as manipulative, tedious or confining. But is bluntness ever constructive ? I think it can be as long as it is mixed with positive comments, but can never be if it is entirely negative.
November 13 at 7:23PM
    blairwacha: Couldn't have said it better myself, Annie!
    November 13 at 8:39PM
    Skyangel02: Dear Annie, I think it depends on the circumstances and frame of mine of all people involved.
    I am one who thinks bluntness is honest and efficient and kind. I think it is very constructive even when it appears to not be constructive to some people. Often it depends on the way it is interpreted and received as to whether the recipient is offended by it or not.

    I have learned a lot from very blunt people in my life and at first I hated what they told me and was terribly offended by it but I learned that there was quite another way to see things than through "rose colored glasses" and seeing things without those rose colored glasses gives us a greater sense of reality than wearing them all the time.

    The "bubble bursters" are generally disliked in life but I learned they do not really intend to hurt or offend others by bursting their bubbles. On the contrary, they are doing them a service.

    To me, the "bubbles" represent the illusions of life and if we live in an illusion or are deceived in some way by others or by our own egos, I think we need someone to burst the bubbles in order to wake us up to reality.

    Personally I want to be woken up if I am being deceived. I hope others would too. I would consider it a kindness not an offence.

    If people continue to live inside those bubbles and float around in the air on cloud nine then the longer they remain in them and the higher they float, the further they fall when their bubbles actually do burst. Therefore, I would prefer someone to burst my bubbles sooner than later because it would lessen the shock when it comes to waking up to reality and falling back down to earth.

    In my opinion it is kinder and more loving to burst a bubble and wake a person up to reality than allow them to live in a delusion of grandeur.

    However, I know and accept the bubble blowers and the bubble bursters will always exist in this world because that is what life is made of. Some prefer blowing bubbles out of both ends of the pipe and other enjoy chasing and bursting them.

    The problem and conflict comes when the children who blow the bubbles get upset by the children who burst the bubbles and tell them to go and play elsewhere. How can the children who like to chase and burst bubbles have fun or show kindness by being honest and truthful when those blowing the bubbles and living a farce are happy in their farce and delusions and do not want to come down to reality?

    It is a sad world when everyone wants to stay in their bubbles and keep blowing them to help other stay afloat and seem to think it is kind or respectful to allow others to live in delusions.

    The way I see it is that both bubble blowers and bubble busters need to accept each other and understand each other. It is wrong of them to reject each other. Bubble blowers and illusionists are very entertaining but all observers need to know it is just a show and not get carried away with the illusion thinking it is real.

    The bubble busters in my life have taught me to face reality, recognise the illusions in life and accept the harshness of it as well as the comedy and drama created by it. Life is not always a bed of roses. Bubble busters toughen people up. Bubble blowers wrap them in soft soap and hot air and treat them with kid gloves so the bubbles won't burst. They see it as kindness but is it kind to let others live in a false sense of reality? I personally do not think it is. I therefore thank the people who are harsh and direct for their tough love and for setting a tough example which makes people a lot stronger if they follow it and understand the reasoning behind it.

    When you understand that bubble busting in not entirely negative and can see the positive aspects of it, it might be easier for people to accept those who do it.





    November 13 at 10:50PM
    blairwacha: Angel, I hate to revisit this again after yesterday, but I didn't read into Annie's comments that we should not be telling someone when a correction is needed. What I took from her comments is how to go about that. This can be done in a non-offensive way!
    November 13 at 11:04PM
    Skyangel02: I agree with you Blair but I am saying that the way people express themselves is automatic and a life long habit which is not easily broken. We need to understand that they generally do not intend to offend. Therefore any offense taken is because of the perspective of the one on the receiving end not necessarily meanness handed out on the giving end.
    November 13 at 11:13PM
    ducilla: I am obviously late to this entire conversation... I have to at least express my feelings here and attempt to reveal why we are all here in the first place.

    Far has always been a site that beginners can safely post their first attempts and mature as artists. They can make connections with potential mentors and other folks that are trying to build portfolios. They can try to get some advice and encouragement that is sorely missing in the "real" art world. It is "OK" to give these folks some good encouragement along with some critical advice. We need to ALL remember just starting out.We need to be aware there are many here that come from many different cultures and environments too. It is not that hard to be critical and at the same time be supportive.I take exception with Skyangels assertions that the bubble "needs " to be burst. I feel we can actually blow the bubble bigger and at the same time make that bubble the best it can be..

    It does not hurt to be constructive and critical. As long as we do this with finesse and the grand knowledge that this is a "learning " site.. If someone wants to see how their work stands up to work in the real world then there are MANY venues to do that.We even have a great venue here at FAR for that,the Diamond committee. after a few denials from that committee I began to realize how to improve my work ..

    For those of you that want to impose a very negative view on the work of others I believe this site is not your best venue.There are many others with a more sophisticated group of members. Far is a unique experience.A place where mentors and students can congregate and feed on each others love of art. It is a wonderful place for that one reason.Don't try to make it into something it was not intended to be.Enjoy the platform .Those of you that think you are ready,try mentoring willing students..And those dedicated students out there,look for someone you respect and ASK them for private critical reviews of your work.I do this on a regular basis and as long as we are on the same page the experience has taught me as much as the students asking for help..
    I am rambling a bit so I will stop here.. PLEASE let FAR work.It is what we make of it and can (and will be again) a wonderful place for great interaction And ,yes,there is some VERY fine art here too!...dennis
    November 14 at 1:27AM
    Skyangel02: Dennis, do you understand that I am comparing the "bubble" to delusions of grandeur?
    If you do, I would like to know why you think those delusions of grandeur ought to be blown up bigger? Why do you think it is good to increase peoples delusions of grandeur?

    I think you must be comparing the "bubble" to something totally different and we are not on the same page yet.

    November 14 at 5:03AM
    blairwacha: Angel, I won't put words in Annie,s mouth, but let me give an example of what I got out of what she posted in this thread.

    Say someone posts a photo that is slightly out of focus. What I understood her saying is not a response of, "this is a beautiful photo just as it is." I think,"this photo lacks detail" or " a bit more sharpness would have been nice," would be a more positive way of correction that, "this picture sucks!"

    I'm not seeing anyone say that corrections aren't ok.
    November 14 at 8:03AM
    Sange: Well said Annie, Dennis and Blair. Annie has made me a better photographer by her reviews. I have gotten less than 5 from her on many occasssions. It is because of WHAT and HOW she says it that made me want to improve. Annie will ALWAYS say what it is she likes about the work and what she feels needs to be worked on. She never belittles. I can get a single star from her, care not..IT is her WORDS that I HEAR. No one needs a 2 page long winded review on any shot here. The KISS method is good enough. And Choosing our words carefully. THANK YOU CARA!
    November 14 at 8:47AM
    dream alone: Wow. Who can say "bubble buster" five times really fast?? When I did post work, I had interactions with Sange, Blair and Annie - and all were such positive experiences. They gave constructive criticism to me and Annie and I exchanged a few messages to clear the air because, as she stated, sometimes just reading something and not being face to face can lead to things being misinterpreted. I remember one time I pointed one tiny thing out in one of Blair's images that I thought could have been improved upon, and Blair responded in such a nice way and said "Oh, a few people mentioned that!" How wonderful it was to have MATURE interactions with these members, as well as others - one being MKFlood. Sky, this is not meant at an attack against you, but you seem to want everyone to live in your bubble, to conform to your way of thinking. The word "Stepford" comes to mind. Or maybe you just have too much time on your hands... whatever the case may be, carpe diem. Live and let live.
    November 14 at 10:12AM
    blairwacha: Dream alone, you left a negative comment on one of my photos? I may have to mute you.....
    November 14 at 12:08PM
    blairwacha: Sange, I like long widest reviews and you have to be a lot closer than Florida / Colorado for the kiss method to work!
    November 14 at 12:11PM
    blairwacha: I of course meant winded, Sange. Darn auto correct.
    November 14 at 12:13PM
    dream alone: Ut oh... the mute button rears its controversial head again!
    November 14 at 1:19PM
    avmurray: I can't complain about the response to my thread. To Skyangel I would like to say that I feel I know you quite well. Also the person you are behind the blunt comments. Like you also I appreciate honesty, but when it comes to the execution of it, we don't always agree. I did not talk about bursting bubbles whether it is a timid person inside, or one to big for the bubble itself. My work as a reviewer is not to burst bubbles. It is to review fair and square the image I have in front of me. The member behind it is irrelevant, but I still have to bear in mind there is.

    Blairwacha, you have understood what I meant. If I see a photo being out of focus, I will never say it is pin sharp. There is however different ways to get this through to the artist. A polite way or a blunt and sarcastic way. It is not true that a habit cannot be changed, or to learn how to write a good review. These things can be learnt if you want to. Still I believe you, Skyangel, when you say it is not always intentional to offend, but when you find out you have done, perhaps it is time change the way of reviewing.

    To Sange I would like to say that I thank you for kind words and your constant support. You are always far too kind to me. The same goes for all of you who have commented on this thread.
    November 14 at 4:57PM
    Skyangel02: Blair, I totally understand what you are saying and agree with being polite but personally I find that often no matter how polite I am, I still get misunderstood.

    Sange, we have not had much communication with each other and therefore hardly know each other but I agree with you that Annie is a very fair reviewer. However when it comes to long winded reviews. if we are merely talking about length, Annies are often a lot longer than anyone elses besides Olgas. I do not write long reviews even though I can be very long winded on the forums when expressing my opinions.

    Dream alone, I like your sense of humor and am glad to hear you have had some positive experiences on this site. It is good to hear some adults actually do have the ability to clear the air between them. I do not interpret anything you have said as an attack towards me. I actually find it quite amusing that you think I am the one in a bubble. If that were true I would not be perceived as a bubble buster by many others. ;-) I see it as other people wanting me to join them in their bubble and become exactly like them. I refuse to do that. I have always been a loner and will remain that way.

    Annie, I appreciate the interaction we have had on forums and also in private.
    Regardless of whether we agree on all things or not, I appreciate the fact that you make the effort to at least understand the opposite point of view.
    I understand you were talking specifically about reviewing work objectively in an unoffensive manner and focusing the review on the art not the artist.

    I tend to look more at the overall perspective of how the artist and the art are connected. It seems to me that the more emotionally connected an artist is with their art, the more offended they get when their art is harshly critiqued no matter how nicely and politely you/we tell them it is mediocre and not excellent. You are one of the fairest reviewers on this site and you still get muted by people who find your reviews offensive or hard to handle or some other strange reason. Obviously they misunderstand you in the same way I often get misunderstood or MGTF gets misunderstood or others get misunderstood. I am saying it does not always make a difference how nicely you say something to a person who has an overly high opinion of themselves and their own work because they will get offended anyway by anyone who gives them a score lower than they want or think they ought to be given.

    I agree the member behind the work is irrelevant. Therefore I am irrelevant and so are you. We need to look at the overall principle we are discussing not the way I awkwardly try to explain it. People get offended and that is the problem. Someone might think I or you are at fault for offending them because we were being insensitive but that does not mean we were insensitive. It means we have been misunderstood and the problem is not with the reviewer but rather with the one who takes offense when none is given. Both you and I have been muted or simply rejected by people who misunderstand us and who do not want to bother taking the time to clear the air.


    I agree we can all learn to review properly and politely. I do think far too many people who are friends on this site give each other five star ratings for mediocre work though. They give five stars which means excellent work and no revisions needed and then go on to tell each other what revisions might make it better. If reviewers have suggestions as to how to improve something the rating ought to be four or four and a half not five. With a five star review there should be absolutely no suggestions made for improvement because five stars mean NO IMPROVEMENT NEEDED.

    I think all of us including me need to change the way we review and start handing out mostly four star reviews and keep the five star reviews for really special work. We should treat the five stars as if they were an unlimited supply of sixes and use the sixes for something really exceptional which is as rare as the number of them we are allotted. Most people here are amateur photographers so we do average work not excellent work which needs no revision. Those whose work needs no revision are the ones who are professionals at what they do and the rest of us ought to be learning simply from their examples and artist notes. I learn a lot from just looking at the some of the excellent work around here but I often see work with five star ratings and suggestions for improvement in the comments. That kind of thing in my opinion is bad reviewing no matter how nice and polite it appears to be. I see it as telling a person the work is excellent when it is not. That makes their bubble bigger than it already is and gives them a big head and great ego boost.

    If people want to play that game then I will leave them to it. I think it is childish to boost each others egos just to make others like you and gain their friendship which is what I see going on. Friends give friends five stars all the time and nothing less. It lowers the quality and meaning of five star reviews, turns five into average and six into excellent and we have nothing for exceptional so we end up begging Tom for more and won't get them anyway.

    I know I am long winded but I get like that when I am passionate about something and have no clue how to say what I want to say in less words, so please forgive me for all the hot air.

    None of you are forced to read it and can easily just ignore what I write. To those who do bother reading, thank you for your time and effort to understand.

    November 14 at 8:08PM
    ducilla: " As the thread Turns..."

    Sky,I do believe I understand exactly what you are saying.What you are saying is fine ,its how you are saying it that comes across as authoritarian. You can-not change this site to fit "your" model. It is not right, nor is it fair. I personally do not like "your" model. I am a full member of a few "professional" and top amature sites that encourage full and honest reviewing.You have to ask but be forewarned the comments are brutal and quite personal.I like those sites .They serve a purpose and I walked into them with my eyes wide open.I knew the fire and I believed it was hot in the pit.. FAR is NOT,and never has been a site for brutally honest art critiques.It is instead a great learning sight that has a valuable place in this world.You are not allowed to single handedly alter that balance.You can continue "raging against the machine" or you can just temper your thoughts a bit and really get the value that FAR has offer for yourself.

    We have had discussions about the rating system for years.Tom makes alterations and the community makes sure there are ways around them.The very fine reviewers on the site try to lead(Lucien for one) and constantly advocate for the members to be better with the star system.A long time ago I did the same thing.I thought the system should change to MY model.I was arrogant and totally wrong..The system did not need to change as much as I did.After I fought for so long and hard to bring about a widespread use of the "lower" star ratings I realized that the stars are only there for those who care!.I do not care about stars.I care about the comments.I care about the person behind the comments.I care about how the rank amature sees my image,good,bad or even indifferent.If they gave me a one star and offered a relevant review I was happy ,finally.. For those that crave stars they are there for the taking but I am here to say FAR is NOT about the star system.Or the "ranking" system..FAR is a learning and mentoring site at its best.It exists to put those in need with those that give. We all benefit from this interaction and I personally find it invaluable.

    Now ,anyone can be brutally honest.I find it quite easy in fact. It is learning to temper that honesty with positive comments as a balance that can encourage or devastate(as the case may be).. You(and here I am addressing anyone that believes FAR has to change to fit their personal likes or dis-likes) are the one that needs to adjust to the system as it is. If you want total honesty that is not wrapped in a soft blanket I suggest one of those "other" sites. If you on the other hand have something to offer students of art them please by all means learn what is "real" about FAR and offer your talents to those that crave them....Teaching is the only real way to learn the intricate nature of the human component of art....Dennis
    November 14 at 11:36PM
    Skyangel02: Dennis, It seems to me that the way I express myself comes across as authoritarian only to those who lack self esteem and feel inferior to me. That is what I have discovered in my life and it is not my fault. Those who feel equal to me or superior to me do not tell me to change the way I express myself. They accept it and understand it. I am a confident person and I cannot help it if others lack self confidence. I cannot give them confidence and neither can anyone else. Self confidence comes from inside yourself. I was once a very timid and quiet shy person who lacked a lot of self confidence so I totally understand how they feel but I cannot change the way they feel by molly coddling them.

    I am not exactly sure how you are interpreting "my model" Could you explain that to me and tell me what you do not like about it? I am merely trying to do my part to make this a better site for all where quality as well as honesty is foremost. The honesty does not need to be brutal or rude but honesty should never be pushed aside for superficiality. Neither should any of the older members be giving new members the false impression that all time best awards are rare or special when anyone can buy them through advertising. I do not think it is kind to give new people a false impression like that and this site does give people that false impression in quite a few ways.

    When I was new it took me a couple of months to realize that the ratings were about advertising and not about who does the best quality work. It was quite a wake up call to find this is an advertising site more than a learning site. However we do learn that the rich win and the poor lose and to gain fame and recognition takes a lot of money and advertising. ;-)

    At least the headings on the rankings charts could be changed to say "Top Advertiser of ....." instead of saying "Top ...... "
    That would be far more honest and everyone would know where they stand in the self advertising ranks from the day they join. ;-)







    November 15 at 2:39AM
    MGTF Blue: I would like to say that often it is the little things that make all the difference to a picture and it is these little things that we, as the creator of them, often overlook. Just an out of focus highlight or a twig poking into the frame can be distracting and pointing it out is both justified and offers constructive advise to the person who posted the image.
    Some members seem to take the attitude that it is being 'picky' to mention them but I don't agree at all.
    November 15 at 3:15PM
    EvaB: Annie, your initial post on this matter is beautifully stated.
    December 13 at 9:42PM
 
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